ITSAGOAL.org - More than just a game
HomeManagerClubMatch daySquadTransfersLeagueCompetitionsStatisticsCommunityHelpShop
   

View forum thread

CREATE
Create your football club from the ground up and establish yourself as a football manager.
MANAGE
Manage every aspect of your football club from player transfers to squad training.
COMPETE
Go head to head with thousands of football managers from all over the world.
General Discussions
« Prev123Next »
2nd Jan 18 3:51 PM
Piper_FC
Posts 865
Quote:
Originally posted by NotSoSpecialOne
the sum of your player ratings is 1065 and there are 17 players, that is an APR of 62.65 and not 66


I, too, am unsure of how this gets calculated.

I notice that if you don't include the last/worst player in the average, then the mean is 65.75 which would round to 66. I think that the calculation includes either a subset of players or uses a series of weights.

Kevin: have any interest in weighing in (pun intended ) on that?
 
2nd Jan 18 3:58 PM
KevinHann
Posts 704
Quote:
Originally posted by Piper_FC
I, too, am unsure of how this gets calculated.

I notice that if you don't include the last/worst player in the average, then the mean is 65.75 which would round to 66. I think that the calculation includes either a subset of players or uses a series of weights.

Kevin: have any interest in weighing in (pun intended ) on that?


I honestly don't know the exact calculation behind it, mate. I've had a few attempts to crack it that seemed to work for a while but never stood up to my clubs APR fluctuations. If anyone has a tried and tested theory, I'd be happy to hear it myself.

P.S.: no weighing in, please! I seem to have gained some the past year
 
2nd Jan 18 7:27 PM
KevinHann_2nd
Posts 166
Quote:
Originally posted by NotSoSpecialOne
Your Super Cup runs will have helped you CR no end compared to others who didn't fare so well and the extra money from them that's for sure.


Of course having good cup runs is a bonus, but it is also part of what we are all aiming for - it's not some gift dropped from high above. While it does take luck (particularly with the draw), it also takes getting yourself in a position to compete.

My point however was that it's not exactly "help no end compared to others" as it's about making yourself not so dependent on cup success financially. It accelerates things but it isn't single-handedly driving you forward - or if you are counting on it this much, there are certainly things you can and should look to improve.

A one-time bonus of ~3 million in prize money, while counter-balanced by other seasons early cup exits, is essentially not the one and only huge factor towards club rating in the case of this club. It is a relatively minor portion of a steady income.

Here is why: over the past 4 seasons this club has registered an income of 42, 43, 45, 52 million. This is without wheeling and dealing on the market - just the normal listings of players you normally want to get rid of; and without consistent major cup success (one IAG Cup final over those 4 seasons is indeed a minor portion, while a nice boost on itself - especially considering there has been no other cup success at all - while some others will definitely have a better shot at getting more money from their local divisions where they don't face a Stallions of Rock quality of opposition).

I'd like to stress I'm just trying to provide some info of what it takes to get to this tier and that it is possible to do it without being a dominant force in your league and without being a mastermind on the transfer market. It just takes awareness of how the mechanics function, a lot of patience and making well-timed decisions that may sacrifice your current strength on the pitch but will put you in a better position down the line.
 
3rd Jan 18 1:38 PM
Piper_FC
Posts 865
Quote:
Originally posted by KevinHann_2nd

Here is why: over the past 4 seasons this club has registered an income of 42, 43, 45, 52 million.


That's quite a lot of cash and a nice season-on-season progression! If you remove the transfer line for both income and expenses, what do they become then?

Here's the thing that I wonder about: what was your rating along the seasons? You've been at that club for how long? And how long did it take to reach 4501, 5501 and 6501? How did that coincide with entering the top division in your league? How strong was the league when you got there?

My club just entered the top division in the US and I'm trying to figure out the right way forward; the idea of having already purchased any all 90s FA players and not ruining my club financially doesn't seem possible - it'll take quite a while to build up cash reserves to be able to make purchases like that...but maybe that's because I shouldn't be trying to compare my club to a club who can do that at this point...or maybe I should? Anyway, just trying to get a handle on your club's progression to this point if we're using it as an example.
 
3rd Jan 18 8:04 PM
KevinHann_2nd
Posts 166
Quote:
Originally posted by Piper_FC
That's quite a lot of cash and a nice season-on-season progression! If you remove the transfer line for both income and expenses, what do they become then?


Here is a detailed breakdown on the specific figures, I think it showcases the importance of player turnover rather than looking at players as a source of major profit:

Season 12: 42.2m income, 35.8m expenses, 22.5m from player sales, 20.1m spent on players, 2.4m income from transfers, 6.4m total season profit;
Season 13: 43.7m income, 34.4m expenses, 21.1m from player sales, 19.6m spent on players, 1.5m income from transfers, 7.4m total season profit (2.8m invested in stadium);
Season 14: 45.4m income, 36.3m expenses, 20.4m from player sales, 15.3m spent on players, 5.1m income from transfers, 9.0m total season profit (8.05m invested in stadium);
Season 15: 52.6m income, 43.4m expenses, 28.4m from player sales, 31.2m spent on players, 2.8m loss on transfers, 9.3m total season profit.

Quote:
Originally posted by Piper_FC
Here's the thing that I wonder about: what was your rating along the seasons? You've been at that club for how long? And how long did it take to reach 4501, 5501 and 6501? How did that coincide with entering the top division in your league? How strong was the league when you got there?


I'll have to disappoint you here. I really meant it when I said I am managing this club casually. I do follow those details on my first club, but I never paid attention or kept track of these numbers here. It is a genuine representation of trying to do the right things to grow a club without investing too much time, effort or planning in it.

I was never the dominant force in the league but I was always competitive. I was able to wrestle with Stallions of Rock for a couple of seasons but they quickly grew way above my stature and never looked back. I'm not even sure if I won the league at all - had to check - and no, never won it. The only major trophies are three Nigeria Cups, back in season 6, 7 and 10, and a shock IAG Cup trophy back in season 6. The prize money back then was significant in terms of spending power at the time, but nothing special in terms of directly boosting club rating through sheer bank balance.

I've been within the 5501-6500 tier for at least 4-5 seasons because I'm sure I had to renew some staff contracts at some point. Maybe longer, not sure. League position was never a major part of my club rating stagnation during my time in the top flight though - it was always down to the quality of the squad.

Quote:
Originally posted by Piper_FC
My club just entered the top division in the US and I'm trying to figure out the right way forward; the idea of having already purchased any all 90s FA players and not ruining my club financially doesn't seem possible - it'll take quite a while to build up cash reserves to be able to make purchases like that...but maybe that's because I shouldn't be trying to compare my club to a club who can do that at this point...or maybe I should? Anyway, just trying to get a handle on your club's progression to this point if we're using it as an example.


Would I be wrong if I suggest you aren't selling/signing players often and instead you prefer to amass the finances to fund purchases by tickets, cup money and all the other income?

A more aggressive turnover might help if that is the case. Collecting 18 million to sign that all 90s striker will take many seasons even if you have optimized income/expenses outside transfers. On the other hand if you sell a 80s player for 14+ million, you only need to invest less than 4 to get the better player. Change 90s/80s with whatever tier of player seems realistic for your club. If you can do just a couple of these transfers every season, you will improve your squad roster, avoid watching everyone in the said roster grow old until you get that one huge signing, and most of all this is totally achievable. The poorer your current squad is in quality, the longer it will take to get there, but quick player turnover will definitely move you in the right direction both in terms of competitiveness both on the pitch and on the market.

Hope this helps!
 
6th Jan 18 5:47 AM
Boston2017
Posts 48
Just avoid promotion and you should be fine
 
6th Jan 18 7:25 PM
Piper_FC
Posts 865
Thanks for the great response, Kevin.

It's useful to see your club as a nice long-term target, but if managers are entering into this thread to think about club building, that's pretty far in the distance when more intermediate goals might be helpful.

As I've moved up the ranks in the US, I've been wondering about what the right level of club is to promote from each division to assume a) continued improvement in the league above you, and b) success when you make it to the top division.

I've only managed this club and we promoted the first season when really I should have waited a season or two to sort out the middle-long-term future of the club and get things in order. I think that would have meant I'd be entering the top division in a season or two's time likely at the 5501+ CR mark instead of at the ~4900 mark which would likely set me up much better to achieve the 6501 mark in a few seasons...as it is I won't reach 5501 for a while and that is going to slow me down significantly. Each level of staff means you will be able to train players quicker allowing for quicker player turnover (purchase player from a club that can only train to 40s, train to 60s in 2 seasons, sell for profit, repeat) and faster increases in rating.

Basically, I think I went ahead too quickly and my trajectory is plateau'ing rather than rising and that's the point I'm hoping to get across to other managers.

If a league has 5 divisions, here's an example of the right club rating points to be at to promote:

Division 5: 3501 CR (which translates to a current club ranking of ~ 260)
Division 4: 4250 CR (club ranking of 115)
Division 3: 4900 CR (club ranking of 40)
Division 2: 5501 CR (club ranking of 16)

Would you agree with the above rough guidelines for CR targets prior to promotion? Hopefully this can give managers a goal to reach during the climb up the lower leagues to help them figure out how ready they will be to compete at the top of the division above them (or the top division when they get there).
 
7th Jan 18 11:15 AM
NotSoSpecialOne
Posts 320
Quote:
Originally posted by Boston2017
Just avoid promotion and you should be fine


very constructive and helpful as there are 17 teams in every league who avoid promotion each season and not every one of those are a budding 'superclub' in waiting.

It's all well and good avoiding promotion but it's what you do when you aren't getting promoted that's important. As Kev touches on and has been mentioned numerous times in other threads over the seasons, it's about improving your club whilst you're doing what you're doing. There's no point not getting promoted if all you are doing is keeping the same team with the same players as they are getting older all of the time and with the shorter seasons they get older quicker as the season isn't 70 days like it used to be.

You always have to keep improving the club even if it is small steps and this is what too many people do wrong IMO as everyone is after the same type of player and for the majority of managers this isn't the correct way forward as to buy 1 80/90s fixed player you are looking to paying at least 15 million for a player younger than 24 when you could buy 3 or 4 players of 50/60s fixed for that price and in the age group above this. If your club doesn't have 'decent' coaches then again IMO there is next to no point in buying the first option as that type of player won't reach their full potential and they will train slower and the benefit is outweighed by negatives. This type of player ages at the same rate so they technically devalue as they get older and don't train and their resale value is less than what they originally paid. One player doesn't necessarily make that much difference whereas 3 or 4 would and if the player you buy in is better than what you currently have then it's an improvement and a step towards the next level of staff. The problem being is people are expecting right now results when this game has never been about that if you are after a long term club as opposed to one used to improve manager rating before club hopping and repeating in the hope a 'top team' comes available they can apply for.

Thoughts from others?
 
7th Jan 18 1:40 PM
Boston2017
Posts 48
Quote:
Originally posted by NotSoSpecialOne
very constructive and helpful as there are 17 teams in every league who avoid promotion each season and not every one of those are a budding 'superclub' in waiting.

It's all well and good avoiding promotion but it's what you do when you aren't getting promoted that's important. As Kev touches on and has been mentioned numerous times in other threads over the seasons, it's about improving your club whilst you're doing what you're doing. There's no point not getting promoted if all you are doing is keeping the same team with the same players as they are getting older all of the time and with the shorter seasons they get older quicker as the season isn't 70 days like it used to be.

You always have to keep improving the club even if it is small steps and this is what too many people do wrong IMO as everyone is after the same type of player and for the majority of managers this isn't the correct way forward as to buy 1 80/90s fixed player you are looking to paying at least 15 million for a player younger than 24 when you could buy 3 or 4 players of 50/60s fixed for that price and in the age group above this. If your club doesn't have 'decent' coaches then again IMO there is next to no point in buying the first option as that type of player won't reach their full potential and they will train slower and the benefit is outweighed by negatives. This type of player ages at the same rate so they technically devalue as they get older and don't train and their resale value is less than what they originally paid. One player doesn't necessarily make that much difference whereas 3 or 4 would and if the player you buy in is better than what you currently have then it's an improvement and a step towards the next level of staff. The problem being is people are expecting right now results when this game has never been about that if you are after a long term club as opposed to one used to improve manager rating before club hopping and repeating in the hope a 'top team' comes available they can apply for.

Thoughts from others?


Agree

On the other hand there is no point on getting promoted before you are ready which some managers do and then they get stunned that their club is not moving any where in the premiership
 
7th Jan 18 2:04 PM
Piper_FC
Posts 865
Quote:
Originally posted by Piper_FC

Club rating goals for promotion
Division 5: 3501 CR (which translates to a current club ranking of ~ 260)
Division 4: 4250 CR (club ranking of 115)
Division 3: 4900 CR (club ranking of 40)
Division 2: 5501 CR (club ranking of 16)


Quote:
Originally posted by Boston2017
Agree

On the other hand there is no point on getting promoted before you are ready which some managers do and then they get stunned that their club is not moving any where in the premiership


So what do you think of the above goals for club rating to get promoted from each of the divisions? Not enough? Too high?
 
7th Jan 18 2:13 PM
Boston2017
Posts 48
Quote:
Originally posted by Piper_FC
So what do you think of the above goals for club rating to get promoted from each of the divisions? Not enough? Too high?


In my opinion depends on the top teams in your premiership. If you will reach the premiership with same or higher points than top teams in your premiership then should be fine.

But if you will reach premiership with 5500 points and the top teams are running around 6500-7000 then there is a chance you will get dominated or at least will be moving very slowly

Also finances is very important especially in premiership...if you are looking to compete then you should be able to spend millions every season to keep up the rating of your squad and improve on it....some clubs may have points to hire stellar coaches but then no enough cash to sign players needed to compete against top teams...

Again the beauty of this game is there are different approaches and there is no black and white


what works for a certain club might not work for another
 
29th Jan 18 8:20 AM
mackfishy
Posts 56
Bump. Could this thread not be stickied? Is that even a word lol. Handy to get new players to read.
 
29th Jan 18 9:52 AM
pleasantsurprise
Posts 3,785
I've been meaning to do this for a while...
 
29th Jan 18 12:58 PM
mackfishy
Posts 56
Quote:
Originally posted by pleasantsurprise
I've been meaning to do this for a while...


Cheers Pleasant. It is a good template for success on this game. Get the timing of the different elements right and you're laughing.

for example, don't make big profits or losses. aim for between 2 and 5 million per season, accumulating money and paying minimal tax. You need increasing amounts of cash to move your club rating forward. Losses just mean paying more tax sometime in the future
 
31st Jan 18 3:27 AM
WVaHooligan
Posts 1
Hey Y'all,
I am a newbie here. All of this sounds very interesting and can't wait to dive in. Unfortunately, I have to wait 5 more days till I can. I have already started a corner addition to my stadium because it sold out every game I could see but such is life.

I do have a question about training. Mainly what and how often I should. I have a huge roster and am in 13 place and not in any cup. Thanks in advance for the help.

Take It Easy
 
8th Feb 18 7:58 PM
Piper_FC
Posts 865
After having just sent a new manager in another thread to the Help files to look at youth academy details, I took a bit of a further look for something that I've been wondering about and realized that I think the Help files might be wrong in a related area.

From the Help files regarding scout searches:
Regarding searching for players on the Transfer Market, you may wish to get results back quickly. If that is the case, then you would be well advised to include as much specific detail as you can when you give your instructions.
The same advice holds true if you are searching for players for your Youth Academy, though of course if you are very particular in your requirements, you may find that they sometimes draw a blank.


This might be true for the TM, but I am quite sure the opposite is true for searching for youths. That is, when you give a scout more requirements for the type of youth you want them to find, they take longer to return with their results. However, the above from the Help files would have me believe that the more specific detail that is included, the quicker the search. So, are the help files wrong? am I thinking about this wrong?

On a side note - how long do searched youth players stay available before they disappear? I know that TM scouted players stay until the end of their listing, but I've yet to track how long scouted youth stay around (my initial reason for looking into the Help files).
 
30th Jul 18 11:30 PM
KevinHann
Posts 704
Reposting this here since it's off-topic in the other thread:

For whoever is actually interested in how my 2nd club Insmouth Cadavers handled the market so far. I've included the overall profit/loss from transfers for each season, and the overall financial profit/loss for the same season as well.

You can draw plenty of conclusions from the figures if you want to analyze how that club is being run financially.

If anybody would like a more detailed insight about how the numbers translate into different stages of growing the club, let me know.

Season 3:
-862,321 players bought
+2,366,009 players sold
+1,503,688 overall transfers
+2,139,966 entire season profit/loss (all other income/expenses added)

Season 4:
-7,756,642 players bought
+5,600,000 players sold
-2,156,642 overall transfers
-2,165,963 entire season profit/loss

Season 5:
-5,401,321 players bought
+2,999,999 players sold
-2,401,322 overall transfers
+3,336,878 entire season profit/loss

Season 6:
-14,100,000 players bought
+8,634,555 players sold
+1,042,798 received from sell on fees
-4,422,647 overall transfers
+3,964,610 entire season profit/loss

Season 7:
-13,423,321 players bought
+5,749,000 players sold
-7,674,321 overall transfers
-410,759 entire season profit/loss

Season 8:
0 players bought
+11,779,909 players sold
+11,799,909 overall transfers
+5,544,636 entire season profit/loss

Season 9:
-9,459,321 players bought
0 players sold
-9,459,321 overall transfers
-1,727,793 entire season profit/loss

Season 10:
-15,802,000 players bought
+8,300,000 players sold
-7,502,000 overall transfers
+1,217,491 entire season profit/loss

Season 11:
-20,150,000 players bought
-662,589 paid in sell on fees
+8,624,898 players sold
-12,187,691 overall transfers
-9,363,527 entire season profit/loss

Season 12:
-20,123,000 players bought
-1,550,013 paid in sell on fees
+22,500,236 players sold
+827,223 overall transfers
+6,380,900 entire season profit/loss

Season 13:
-19,607,000 players bought
+21,088,270 players sold
+1,200,300 received from sell on fees
+2,681,570 overall transfers
+9,342,170 entire season profit/loss

Season 14:
-15,262,000 players bought
-799,999 paid in sell on fees
+20,365,886 players sold
+4,303,887 overall transfers
+9,040,131 entire season profit/loss

Season 15:
-31,200,000 players bought
+28,463,456 players sold
-2,736,544 overall transfers
+9,246,248 entire season profit/loss

Season 16:
-28,412,111 players bought
-2,020,001 paid in sell on fees
+29,966,116 players sold
-465,996 overall transfers
+9,124,477 entire season profit/loss

Season 17:
-38,422,000 players bought
-409,900 paid in sell on fees
+36,248,999 players sold
+1,763,101 overall transfers
+6,626,549 entire season profit/loss

Season 18:
0 players bought
+25,350,000 players sold
+225,400 received from sell on fees
+25,575,400 overall transfers
+9,749,259 entire season profit/loss

Season 19:
-76,222,000 players bought
-950,100 paid in sell on fees
+55,749,333 players sold
-20,472,667 overall transfers
-8,522,431 entire season profit/loss

You can clearly see the patterns in the different phases of growth the club went through, despite the way inflation skews the numbers.

While the entire outlay on transfers over the period of 17 seasons seems huge, adding up to a total of over 316,000,000 spent on players...

The actual net spend combined is just 13,529,875. Meaning the club has invested only 13.5 million of its non-transfer generated income in players. Over 17 seasons.
 
« Prev123Next »
 
 

Copyright © 2019 - IAG Games Ltd. All rights reserved.
Disclaimer | Privacy policy | Terms of use | Rules of game