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Excellent post. I'll split my reply into two parts, so the posts aren't too long, for BlueBoar's benefit.


Oh absolutely, Super doesn't get a free pass on this. He's still high on my sus-o-meter. I can also, see, however, a not unreasonable world where he saw his role and then forgot about the PM because he had to see to his football team. Being inactive for 2 days is not cool, and only turning up when you might get nominated is VERY suspicious, but it doesn't meet my threshold for being nominated for lynching. If it happens again, however...

Hooray, someone questioning me at last. It seems obvious to me that IF Super is town, he doesn't have a role that received information on Night 1 or he would have had 2 separate PMs (a role one and an information one) and been more likely to want to act on it. There's not a lot of point in pushing someone for information they don't have. The comment to Euro was just in case he'd missed that part of his role. I don't think he's a virgin, because he probably would have claimed it by now.

Of the two of you, I trust you more than I trust Berry, but there's also a fair chance you're on the same team, and I'm suspicious of him. You've whispered to each other but not commented on what was whispered, you've made a post that gives him a reason to not have to present information for the rest of the game by saying he might be a drunk, and you've voted together. Surely you can see how you could be considered to be a pair?

You have made a good claim and it's narrowed down the possibilities on my crib sheet to: a) you being town and one of the three of you is drunk, which is good because the other 4 town members know they aren't drunk, or b) you're evil, in which case we possibly have a pair of evil players. There's also a small possibility of c) you were poisoned on night 1 and are indeed the librarian but were given the wrong name or role, but let's not open that particular can of worms, because there's no way to prove it one way or the other. What you shared was good information for the town, and you've done well to share it.

I am debating with myself whether the right time to reveal my information is coming. I haven't made up my mind yet. It could certainly be beneficial to the town, but if I'm wrong or being misled or poisoned, it could do immense damage to the town by leading us to lynch the wrong person/people. Sometimes it's better to share what you have because it is always going to benefit the town, such as when you claimed librarian and reveal the potentially drunk players. Sometimes it's best to keep your cards face down and only turn them over when the time is right. This is why I'm being careful and looking for corroboration before I say anything.

I see. Can I also ask if you had to give any information to TG, please? Again, only share if you're comfortable doing so, and we can wait until the next whisper phase if that makes you more comfortable sharing. I have a couple of roles in mind that you could be, depending on your answer.

JustSuper - outsider, most likely Butler?

Sub-servient and waiting for his master to vote, he has no need to contribute to anything in the game forum. In fact, servants are "generally" seen but not heard.

It would certainly explain why he has been anonymous until the nominations stage and maybe the fact that we had prodded him had nothing to do with his appearance.

It's just a theory, but I am not ruling out that JustSuper is evil. There may not be a butler in the game, especially as one outsider already identified by HanSo70's Librarian claim would be an outsider anyway, but we do have two in the game.

Thoughts?

I'll answer this one later, I don't want to have your or anyone's list too narrow at this time. And please keep in mind that I have some reason to doubt my own role at this time, as I might be the drunk.

I have lowered my hand on Euro, although I'll keep him high on my list of suspects.

I'm a bit worried about the lack of strategy right now. Do we actually want to execute anyone this first day or not? How can we make it so that we benefit from it information wise?

[quote=TopGun2]Han, just in case you're not aware, we're waiting for your vote since you're next to Euro it makes you the first voter.[/quote

]

Had no idea, and thought the nomination was enough.
Done

The issue isn't a lack of strategy, it is a lack of reliable information.

Maybe we can discover something by looking at who whispered who?

As an example, you whispered Euro, decided that he was too disruptive to be good and added to HanSo70's nomination proposal.

You have since lowered your hand, so we certainly can't knock you for not having a strategy, but do you have someone else in mind?

This is going to be a strange thing for me to say, considering I am the one on the block here, but I am generally in favour of executing on the first day as it gives the town some valuable information. I do understand not all share that view.

I do find the timing of changing your vote odd (and suspicious), you have waited until it is clearly not going to happen to change your vote.



You yourself highlighted how interesting it would be to follow voting patterns

So I guess the next question coming my way is who should we execute if I think we should execute today?

For me personally there are two leading candidates - JustSuper, for basically contributing zero and BerryStraw, for the timing of his vote change.

Can confirm my role is not Virgin

Well, I've also announced I couldn't wait to test the waters here and there, which is exactly what I did by whispering you, sharing my thoughts on our conversation here. I know my case on you is very thin, so I decided to lower the bar a bit for other potential nominees or get us a draw. Technically, you're still first in line, though. So it might be time for you to try something better than to return the favour to me or trying to throw JustSuper under the bus?

Why would it be bad for the good side if we lost you?

I'm still expecting something to be shared from the FS-Andy whisper. As there is no good reason why Andy picked FS only and both of them didn't share anything about their chat. So, to me, they are a pair for now. Still, there could be a very good reason for them to keep the contents private for now, but I do expect something that matters sense to come out of it by the start of day 2. If not, they're looking suspicious to me.

I don't have anything on others right now, although my view is definitely not clear. If we would decide to nominate JustSuper for not contributing, I wouldn't be against it, but your guess is as good as mine on that decision.

Thanks. Nomination could be done for reasons beyond necessarily wanted the person actually executed (for example someone might want to nominate someone they believe to be a virgin purely to trigger the virgin ability) but also the nominee's defence might be strong enough that the nominator changes their mind and doesn't want to vote after all. Thus the nominator still has to express a choice on the vote

The reason that I have been pushing people to give me information (apart from trying to solve who is who to isolate the probable evil players) is that I'm looking for someone to claim a specific role, to help my information become more reliable. Nobody has done so yet. It's a role that people both have an incentive to claim, and at the same time not want to. The lack of anyone claiming it is making me think it's not in the game, which is why I'm now considering giving my information out.


Yes, we do want to lynch on Day 1, but we want to lynch specific roles. If we can't get the demon or minion, there's specific outsider roles that we would love to get rid of early. But nobody is claiming any of them, despite us KNOWING that we have 2 outsiders in the game. I don't blame the drunk at all, because they don't know for sure, but the other 3 outsider roles are told what they are, and they're not being forthcoming.

Lynching a town player is bad, because we only get a couple of chances before the numbers game starts to turn against us (when it's 5 players left, we HAVE to vote if we're not sure if we've got one of the evil team yet, or they will match town numbers with one more night kill and win). We also don't get lynch confirmations, meaning we get less information from lynching. But we should still do so, because if we can find a group of reasonably trusted townsfolk in the next few days, the evil team will have nowhere left to hide by process of elimination.

The problem is that we don't have any good targets, other than maybe HanSo7o, whose information is out and has no more information left to give for the rest of the game, and is a pair with a player that's been acting suspiciously. Problem is, I think it's likely that Han is telling the truth. Or Berry, who is the sus player and might be the drunk, but still isn't willing to claim his given role.

I have nominated BerryStraw, mostly due to timing of vote change but also aided by him confirming he currently has no info.

A coup,e of game mechanics that TG has clarified to me via PM...

If an outsider nominates the virgin, they do not get executed. Only townsfolk do. (Of course it wouldn't be that easy.)

We also don't have to vote on 5 because dead players can still vote one more time, but we only get 1 more vote when dead, so when we're down to 4 players we're basically on our last chance if we haven't got an evil team member by then.

Thanks for the clarification, TG.

I think this is a good call. I'd be willing to take a punt on him, depending on his defence, which I shall wait to see what it is.

This was on my crib sheet as something I was going to come back to this later, but now is a good a time as any.


Han hasn't expanded on what he told you as far as I can tell, but what could he have told you that made you doubt there was a drunk? This, along with the dodgy voting, general evasion, and the fact you've been fed an easy alibi as a possible drunk, all adds up to you being the most suspicious player in the game at this precise moment. Han, do you think Berry was right to react this way to what you whispered to him?

Oh wow. Just realized the nominator actually has to vote (even from first vote position). Learning more each day. This creates some interesting chains of events, and could maybe be affected if we have a butler!

I'm hesitant to vote yes on someone on day one as multiple characters won't get info or abilities until night 2.

Happy to have my mind changed as I know we can't just have the Imp be the only one killing people or we will lose!

(Off for a golf lesson and a lunch meeting, back on in 4 hours - May do some work today too )

Soooo, just diving in, fooling around and see what happens from there hasn't really been a good strategy in this field, I guess. Fair enough.

I think I've been pretty clear about my intentions from the start and apart from my role, I haven't hid anything from the public. If that makes me suspect, so be it.

To clarify some things: Han posted about hoping his information during our whisper wasn't too vague. Our whisper had already ended by then. When I re-read our messages after this post, I understood his suggestions carried more weight than I thought at first instance. Of course things became even more clear after he claimed to be the librarian. I must say I have no reason to doubt his claims so far. Only thing I'm surprised about is that he both was a quick first poster after TG opened this thread as well as the nominations thread. Matter of minutes, but this proves nothing.

Another point. I chose to invite Euro for a whisper quite randomly, as he was one of the few not whispering with someone else or with a request pending at that time. As I stated before, he reacted very defensively. After I told him I thought he kept his cards very close to his chest, his replies came across as a bit ehh, stressy, maybe, at least that's what I read from them. The rest is out here for everyone to see.

Last point for now: I was mistaken about the voting procedure. I thought it was: most votes goes down, but I wasn't aware that a majority is needed to execute a player. Wouldn't have changed my vote if I had understood, because it didn't make sense at all. Genuine mistake.